E50: From London to the American Dream: Perseverance, Entrepreneurship and Real Estate - Jamal Enakhimion

Meet Jamal Enakhimion, a man who embodies the essence of the American Dream. Born in London with Nigerian roots, he now navigates life in the United States, managing his aviation career alongside his real estate side hustle. This episode delves into Jamal's life - his upbringing in diverse North London, his college experiences, his venture into real estate, and his future plans. His story is a testament to the power of perseverance, ambition, and a hustler's mindset.

We get a glimpse of Jamal's journey, which spans from London to the US, as he shares his experiences transitioning from following his father's advice to becoming a self-made success story. Learn how he balances his demanding aviation job with his real estate side hustle, how he manages his time effectively, and how his travel experiences have shaped him. Listen as Jamal talks about his ambitious plan to retire early and his proactive approach to planning his children's college tuition.

Tapping into the under-discussed yet crucial topic, Jamal opens up about the impacts of being a minority in the U.S. and shares his personal experiences. He discusses his admiration for role models like Kobe Bryant and risk-taking entrepreneurs. Every budding entrepreneur can benefit from his valuable advice for anyone looking to enter the real estate market. Join us on this inspiring journey and prepare to be motivated by Jamal's experiences, strategies, and life lessons.

Chapters
0:00 Episode Introduction
0:35 Immigrant Success in Real Estate
8:11 Transitioning to the American Dream
18:29 Future Planning and Motivation in Life
23:50 Purpose, Role Models, Real Estate Advice
28:52 Real Estate Investing and Aviation Insights
35:10 The Impact of Being a Minority
44:45 Minority Workplace Experiences
49:19 Motivation and Connecting With Jamal
50:06 Episode Summary

Transcript

Adeel: 0:00

Welcome to episode 50 of Calm Talks. Today we have an absolutely inspiring guest and a true gentleman, jamal Anakimin. If you're looking for how an immigrant has found success in the real estate game, then lock in for today's episode. Our guest, jamal, has a never-say-die and hustle attitude. Jamal left for America from a very rough neighborhood in London and today manages some of the biggest aviation projects in America. That is just one part of his hustle. The other is in the property game and that is where Jamal has taken calculated risks to get into the game, despite economic challenges over the past few years. Let's get into it, boys. We're live. Jamal. It's an honor to have you on today. It's episode 50 of Calm Talks. You have quite an interesting background and backstory with how you have Nigerian descent and you were born in London and then you grew up in the United States. So, fair to say, tell us a little bit about your backstory.

Jamal: 1:03

I mean it's a little bit of a mix. I mean, I'm honored to be on episode 50. That feels like some type of a milestone. It's not 100, but 50,. I'll take it halfway point.

Ant: 1:13

We're halfway there, the irreversibles.

Adeel: 1:15

Were that close to it, one game away, I know yes, I appreciate having you guys having me on.

Jamal: 1:20

But as far as the background, yeah, I was very much from North London, grew up in I think half of my life, I should say, was not having more than 31,. But was born in North London, then moved to America when I was almost 10 years old. Family does have Nigerian descent which, being British and Nigerian, is not really that foreign. When you're in North London it's pretty much most of the black people you run into are either British, nigerian or British Jamaican and then some people originally have long family ties in the UK but that wasn't that foreign.

Jamal: 1:54

But moving to America, that was, I guess, shocking for a lot of Americans because they weren't used to TV shows like Top Boy Now or all these other prominent young black British actors where they can say, oh, okay, their familiarization with England was like the world of family and I remember moving to America and they're just like whoa, I didn't even know black people lived in England, like what's going on, they didn't understand the accent, it was all weird. But no, yeah, that's, I feel it all feels why I moved to in the States and kind of spent most of my time growing up and I have seen most recently not been in the greater part of New York area.

Ant: 2:32

Jamal, it's no secret to a deal about probably to the audience listening, but you and I actually from a very similar area in London, yeah, I've spoken about it before and like our individual podcast, but I'm going to let you take it away. What's it like living there and how was that?

Jamal: 2:48

From me. You don't really realize how kind of unique not unique how unique a situation is, I should say, compared to the average kid. I came to America and then I was used to like what normal kids go through over here, which I would call suburbia, and their families have these schools and these counties and they live in suburbia versus North London. I mean you're a kid and you're riding the buses by yourself from whatever young age you're kind of roaming around the streets, unfortunately a lot of the times without a lot of parental control, because it's just, you know, the cost of living so high. Usually you have a parent that's working a lot, which allows you a lot of flexibility to be a kid just roaming around North London. Now I grew up in an area called Muswell Hill. I actually split my time between Muswell Hill and what is now like Hoxton shortage type of area Old Street to kind of be more exact where I had my grandma in Old Street and my mother in Muswell Hill. I spent all my weekends in Old Street and my mother's in Thuy Days in Muswell Hill. Those areas were not the best. Now it's almost like a lot of these areas and pockets you see now where they get quote unquote gentrified. It's funny. People are like why'd you move to America? Why move to America? Because these areas were not necessarily the safest.

Jamal: 4:05

When I was in those Hoxton's and Old Street it was fun, don't get me wrong, but you were never too far away from trouble and I think that's kind of the best way to describe it. But going to school there from a young age to have all these different, you know backgrounds. You know I had a friend from Greece, pakistan, india. Like you know so much about cultures, you understand the differences in Northern India, southern India and you're like seven, eight years old understanding these different backgrounds and dialects because everyone's parents, for example, were for the most part first generation.

Jamal: 4:39

So the I guess the diversity of being in London at that time was just amazing. You know, from that to the music, there was a lot of originality in London, I would say in the late 90s that was kind of just taken over, not from a local stage but even like a mainstream stage. You think about all those like certain boy bands or you know we were just talking about the Beckham's prior to this. You know podcast, you know running and you know Spice Girls were the biggest thing. You know Shaggy Craig David Oasis, like we had such diversity kind of going on in England during that time.

Jamal: 5:13

So yeah, definitely go ahead, go ahead.

Ant: 5:15

Yeah, I was going to say like I obviously have the same, very similar, experience to you. Like it's like such a like dichotomy right in London, like you have, you have like a really rough area, but there's so much inspiration coming from it. People want to get out, want to prove themselves, want to do something different, and it's all mixed in with like having different cultures and people were just trying to express themselves, and I feel like that's kind of what, for me, made London difficult and challenging to have a day to day life. But also, you know, that's where you kind of get your burning inspiration from.

Jamal: 5:48

Yeah, I mean, you just kind of figure it out over there. That's kind of a lot of the, you know, you start to look at things and you do the math and I guess I can't think of about, I can't imagine from an adult perspective or parents perspective, where you're doing the math every month figuring how the hell are we going to do this? And I know for myself as a kid, looking back, I'm like, yeah, you know what? We did have about six or seven different cars and you start to think, oh wait, we have these different cars because why one's breaking down.

Jamal: 6:14

You might not have a car for about three to four months. You're riding a bus and then your mom has to struggle to kind of build more money and buy the new car. So it was very much, you know. And if you remember those little key cards that you would put for electricity so you'd have to, you know it was like pay as you go for your electricity and there were certain moments where you know you run out of money to put in the key card and you got to spend that time. You know that will be the time going over to the grandma's house, you know, for the, you know two or three days as we try and figure out how to get the light bill up and running. So you have those kind of tougher beginnings, but I mean, I guess it just builds you.

Ant: 6:50

How does that translate to when you came to America and how did you use that inspiration from London to like build your character over here?

Jamal: 6:59

I would say I mean from the diversity or the no, let me go back to. You said the going through those kind of hardships. I would say I would kind of go with when you do kind of you know, make it. You don't really take it for granted. You understand where you are. You always kind of try and remember the beginnings. I never try and get too too ahead of myself. You try and future plan because obviously you want to set goals and milestones of where you want to be at certain ages, whatever your career or you know businesses, whatever, but you still remember those humble beginnings. So for me, just in the way I generate money and the way I save my money, it's very much different because of those humble beginnings. I understand, you know you just never feel like you're too far away from kind of being set back all the way to where you are. It's like a little bit of a fear slash fire that kind of burns in you, jamal.

Adeel: 7:54

that's really interesting. I'm curious, like did you have other influences in your life who were teaching you this? Like, where does this come from?

Jamal: 8:03

My dad was a big input. You saw, that was kind of the. You know that's the reason I moved to America. My dad had moved to America in the mid 90s. I came to America 2001.

Jamal: 8:11

My dad was very big on just life is fun. But it's a lot more fun when you make it some money and you're comfortable Not to be just like Richie Rich, but it's just all about comfort. And he would always even say my decisions as far as what I want to do when I grow up. He would always ask me from a young age, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? What do you want to do? And he was kind of strict about his responses.

Jamal: 8:32

If I picked, say, a profession that wasn't going to be as well off, because frankly he would make it and say, hey, that's a great idea, but it sounds fun. But you know what, when you can't pay your bills it's no longer fun. And that was his had attitude going into it which for some people they would like to, you know, guide their kids, encourage them to do whatever they want. But I would say we weren't as Privileged to be able to be in that position to say, okay, you can just be an artist or just be free, and then you know you will be okay, we got your back if it doesn't work out you know the American dream right, exactly, yeah, yeah, I mean that's something that, to be honest, to do like.

Adeel: 9:12

I had a similar upbringing with my father, who would, who would always say, like life is a war, and he would say that because he's like you got to keep fighting for Everything that you have. And I remember when I used to get in trouble when I was in high school, he would give me lessons and say you know, get your act together and then you can enjoy all you want, but first get your life in order and everything like that. So how did you transition to like the American dream, where the belief is that you can do anything and everything? How has that been for you?

Jamal: 9:39

I mean I kind of saw, I mean America was great because I mean I moved to Philadelphia, so it wasn't necessarily what you would imagine in the New York, but it was very much a lot of the same type of, you know, metropolitan type of city and you can see it like. You can see, for me, even though London has a lot of different opportunities, a lot of different the mindset of a hustler in London it's just alive and well. But I think there's always a cap as to how far people think that they can make it in London compared to America. When I talk to certain individuals there's no cap. It's just like I want to be. You know, reach for the stars, and that's something that's a goal that I can set and if I work hard enough I can make it. So in America I kind of felt that you know adjustment and you know, maybe family, friends or you know other people that you meet.

Jamal: 10:25

For me, you know, going to college was a big change for me because it was the first time where I really saw other minorities, you know, in a large group, have similar backgrounds.

Jamal: 10:36

You know, maybe being first-generation, maybe being, you know, from Jamaica, from Trinidad, or having you know that info so that you have that influence. But then you also so you can relate to, as far as you know, kind of the parenting structure, you know, which might have been a tad bit stricter, but then you also had, just like minorities, that were all goal-focused but also stressed the importance of wanting to like kind of have fun along the way, where it's kind of hard, you know, usually in high school you had to have those kids that are having too, too much fun, or you know individuals that you just can't really relate to, you know. So College was that big transition for me and they're kind of realizing hey, man, like these Internships, so these co-ops, they can kind of start as soon as you the first career fair, your freshman year, which is something that I actually did I transitioned and I got my first internship.

Jamal: 11:26

I knew I had an internship, I should say after my like six week college. So once I had that I was, it was kind of the beginning points for me to say, okay, I think I got to go get it you.

Adeel: 11:38

Know and we had spoken before the podcast and I think you had mentioned you studied engineering, is that right?

Jamal: 11:42

Yeah, I started your narco engineering.

Adeel: 11:45

Did you have time for partying when you were studying that, oh?

Jamal: 11:48

It was a mix. I mean you pick your spots, you know. You know obviously when the exams and stuff will pop up. You have to. It's kind of hunger down mode. But, um, you pick your spots.

Jamal: 11:58

I mean I was kind of had more of a stretched out schedule. You know one dude who just Finances, you know, being in and out, like in and out of certain classes or internships and co-ops. So you know there was a couple semesters that I took off to work, just to kind of support going back to, you know, paying for school. Once I was there full-time. So you know I had my gaps where I just scheduled were less busy versus more busy. But it was good. I mean, again, I had in the friends around me that were all in other engineering fields. So we kind of picked our spots. Okay, this is kind of a slow period. This is one of a period where we can kind of go out. But college has so many moments. I think right now, for example, they're on their fall break. Already They've been there for four weeks and they already have like on Tuesday and Tuesday off, and then there's a Thanksgiving break, then there's a Christmas break, then there's a spring break. So there's always moments where you can kind of have your fun.

Ant: 12:50

You have an aviation background, right, and I know that's what you do to day-to-day for your job, and that's just one part of your hustle. But the other part of your hustle is also in the property game, in a real estate game. Tell us, like how do you Manage your time between two? What does your day-to-day look like?

Jamal: 13:09

Well, I'll first mean the background. I'll begin with this. The background and engineering started in high school. I was always very good at math and the sciences were added to it and I just felt being an engineer, that would be my career. Back, real estate, I never really thought too too much. As far as the world of real estate, it really happened just from transitioning from going to college in the Midwest to now coming to the tri-state era. When I went to college I had three roommates. My rent was $350 a month. When I then I first seen then I started to work in my Connecticut areas and stuff my rent again, I had roommates 700, 800 bucks a month.

Jamal: 13:43

Then you come to the New York area. You're kind of ignorant to how much you should kind of be demanding from a salary respect, because you don't fully, fully no cost of living until you really live there and I start looking around for housing. I'm just like whoa, I can't even live by myself here without spending a couple thousand and even a couple thousand and people tell me that's a cheap number. And you know, when you come from those again the humble beginnings you're looking at these numbers like what the hell's going on here? I can't do this. So I just told myself, okay, I am gonna ran. But I, you know, even I didn't want roommates at the time, I think I was like 27. I think I said, yo man, I gotta go buy a spot, like I gotta go, really go get it.

Jamal: 14:20

So then it started with that, buying my first property, which was a condo In Hudson County area, which is just there over the water on the Jersey side here, and I just enjoyed it and I enjoyed buying one, but I knew I kind of always wanted another one. I had an aunt that bought a home in Chelsea of New York, maybe in the mid 90s and this is when the area wasn't, as you know, nice as it is now and she bought that place and let's just say it's Forexed, it's, it's valued from when she first purchased it. And I started to look at that like wow, like just having that one little property right there is low key enough for her to retire off. So I started telling myself, wait a minute, this is something here you keep complaining and I used to complain a lot about how much my job was paying and feeling on the value, yada, yada, yada. And then I said you know what you got to stop complaining and kind of figure it out yourself. And that's kind of where the real estate thing happened.

Jamal: 15:15

And I got interested more and more and actually took a trip to Europe for a couple of years during COVID, a couple of months, sorry. During COVID I said you know what? I got to rent my place out. I can't just have it vacant for those couple of months. From there we started looking at short-term rentals and from the short-term rentals and kind of seeing how, you know, I enjoy the hospitality aspect of it, you know I kind of have, you know, you almost nurture all your tenants that come in because they're all just like people that you care for. They all have different stories, different backgrounds. I really started to enjoy it, at least for with only one property. And now I'm currently working on the next scale of this, which is something I'm doing myself and my fiancee, where we're building a new construction that we're also going to short-term rent out.

Ant: 16:01

Yeah, I think it's fascinating. Man Like you realise that you can't, you know, keep chasing the rent, so you decided to jump on the ladder, and I think what's really important to note here is that you did it in a really difficult time. Yeah, I mean, I did it.

Jamal: 16:15

Go ahead, go ahead. You want to finish off?

Ant: 16:17

Yeah, I was going to ask you. You know you're seriously. You're not really risk averse by the looks of it. Can you kind of tell us about your mindset when it comes to buying property and taking risks For me?

Jamal: 16:30

I just like my money moving, like first. People like having a bunch of money in their bank accounts so they can just stare at it every day and they can go have tea and just sit and talk about all the money that's here. And for me I want to go do something with it.

Jamal: 16:44

Right, you know I've always had ideas of real estate or on the franchise or this or that. So I just kind of like to have my money moving that way versus, like you know, mutual fund or whatever Like. So I mean, but unfortunately the risk averse thing for me. I look at it, we're younger, so I kind of am I push it a little bit as far as trying to get these investments across the line, Unfortunately, when you first started investing in real estate, you start to realize, man, like it takes a lot to buy these properties and to get pre-approved for these places.

Jamal: 17:16

The banks have only gotten stricter. This is in 2008, when there was the housing crash and you could show one paste of and they would give you half a million bucks. So now, especially when I got my first one during COVID, these banks are really kind of on your ass as far as like how much they want you to put down your debt to income. You know. You know. So your interest rates, your property, mortgage insurance. There's a lot of things that banks do to make things harder for you. So I've had to push it a little bit. Now, as I transition and in my 30s, let's just say, I have two kids in the next five, six years you kind of got to pull back that risk a lot more. Right? The emergency fund is not just for yourself but it's for your family. So what? I'm hoping that by the point when it's time to slow down, you know you have three, four, five investment properties cooking, so there's no need to kind of go as crazy as you did when you're in your 20s.

Ant: 18:05

How important is future planning for you? Because it sounds like you're always thinking about the future. You just mentioned kids, a fiance You're looking about. You're talking about how your aunt had like a 4x on her property in Chelsea. Are you always sort of future planning?

Jamal: 18:20

Always, and sometimes I think I'm I'm just getting to the point of having an OK balance where your future planning. But you're also living in the moment. You know I used to be at my job four, five years ago. I would literally look at the calendar and then my body would be like I know what you're doing. He's like you're literally counting the days when you're going to get paid, because I would count my days and how much I wanted to calculate and put things here, things there, things there, my plans in the next six weeks, eight weeks. And that's good to a certain point because you're just, you're focused on what you want to do, but then you're also sometimes missing out on the moment, right.

Jamal: 18:55

So I think now, kind of having a fiance, it's pretty easy to kind of just have a nice. You know what we're hard this week. Let's go grab by the E, let's go travel here, let's go do something. You know. You know, for me it's going to England. I was a lot different. It's not just me going to England and going back to North London. Now I'm traveling to all different places. I'm going to, you know, covent Gardens, I'm going to farmhouses, and you know. So it's a lot different, much more of a feel. But I do think it's very important to future plan, because if you don't have a plan, you know for you what are the people the girls use the little whiteboards or whatever those things are. Like not the whiteboards, the things where they cut up little pieces of mood boards mood boards, yeah. Like if you don't kind of have that, it's hard for things to just happen for you, like they don't just pop up and just change overnight. You have to kind of envision yourself, you know setting your goals.

Jamal: 19:50

I used to always say my best times when I used to plan my next play from a real estate perspective. I was broke as shit, but I would be listening to all the content, all the podcasts. I'd have all the knowledge. So when the money was in the account I already was, I was 10 steps ahead. I knew what to do with it. I was going to go here, going to go here. I was going to go this bank. I knew what. You know the terms, the rates. You know if I needed to, for example, this next property. I'm in the Poconos we did a thing called a HELOC, which is a home equity line of credit. Before I applied for the HELOC. I had been researching what banks were going to give me, say, 90% LTV loan was loaned a value or 95% LTV? I already knew the loan terms of every single bank listed out.

Jamal: 20:34

You know same things with, like, a business line of credit or a business credit card. You have to understand all these things well in advance, even if you might not have saved the credit score to get approved for said card. But you have to understand. Okay, what are you going to do with this business line of credit? What are you going to do with this business credit card? You want 0% APR? Do you want the high spending limit? Do you want to? What are your plans for your business? Or whatever you're doing, you know going forward.

Adeel: 21:01

It sounds like you're doing a lot of planning, but there's also a lot of intentionality behind what you're envisioning, what you're trying to create in your life. I know a lot of times it happens that a person can be trying to prepare, trying to consume content, trying to educate themselves, and they just suffer from taking that first step, taking that leap.

Jamal: 21:20

Yeah.

Adeel: 21:21

How did you actually take the leap into real estate? What was the beginning like for you?

Jamal: 21:25

Well, it was very much again for me and myself just being stable. I didn't want to rent because I lived in a high rental area. That was it. It wasn't like I intentionally started going into buying that condo. Instead I want to rent this out. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, maybe eventually, as I get older, it'll be paid off.

Jamal: 21:42

You know you want to laugh about future planning. I have the mortgage, the remainder of the mortgage, set up so it will be paid off by the time my first kid goes to college. Do I have a first kid yet? No, but I want to get ahead of it. If college is going to cost X amount, I've already paid off, say, five years of that bad boy. So the timing works out. So it'll be paid off around that time. Kid is one thing. I also want to retire in say 25 years too. You want to. That's part of the future planning. Now, am I overly invested in how my retirement is going to look right now? No, but you have to start the process of thinking about how you want to map out that end stage in life, that middle stage in life when you have multiple kids with an early stage in life where you want to invest more, and the current day.

Ant: 22:32

Where does this motivation to succeed come from? Because you've got your hand in, you've got your fingers in a few pies Properties one of them. Obviously you've got a good career. Obviously you have a stable relationship because you engage. Congratulations with that, appreciate it. You've got your finger in so many pies right now. Where does the motivation to keep pushing forward come from?

Jamal: 22:53

It's kind of like there's always this famous interview with Kobe Bryant I think his team just made the NBA Finals and they're asking you know, kobe, you're so excited, nba Finals, yada, yada, yada. And he's sitting there and the reporters in his main comment was you know, just, I'm not what, you're excited for jobs not finished. And I think for me, I never got too comfortable. We've talked about the humble beginnings and not being too comfortable, but even though I could probably say that, like I'm okay right now and I'm very much blessed, there's still so much more to do and we can speak for ourselves and say, okay, we're comfortable with our day to day. But you know, is the family set, you know, is the mom or did that? You know, things happen in life and you want to make sure that everybody is okay. So I think that's kind of the motivation right now. It's not necessarily for me, but it's just for everyone around me to have that same level of comfort.

Adeel: 23:47

You know we spoke yesterday as we were kind of prepping and everything like that. And Jamal, you had asked about like if we're into basketball and kindly I'm not but Kobe Bryant Jersey is the only basketball jersey that I have, because, like, growing up, growing up in Pakistan, like I used to watch Kobe Bryant and I used to like wake up at like 4 or 5 am because the time difference try to catch like a Kobe Bryant game and I loved his mentality Like obviously we know about Jordan, but I was in the Kobe Bryant era, Like that's why I kind of aligned to him more.

Adeel: 24:14

I love athletes like that man Like Cristiano Ronaldo, Kobe Bryant, the Michael Jordan's who are your role models in your life.

Jamal: 24:24

Role models. I don't know if I have a lot of role models. I have more like mentors right, where I kind of watch their story and I watch their career arc and it's just like super inspiring. Like I love, like you tell, my real estate. I love Dave Ramsey. Even though I might disagree with 70% of the things that he does or how he invests, because he doesn't believe in, like credit cards or you know, taking loans out. He's Mr Cash, cash, cash. I still really love or like respect him as a mentor. Just a lot of entrepreneurs, just guys that kind of just you know, take the risk and then make it right and just kind of stand on their own to go do something like that.

Jamal: 25:11

You bring up Kobe. That's a funny one, because why I went to high school was the high school rivals of Lower Merriam that's where Kobe Bryant went to high school. So I almost grew up disliking Kobe. You know, I went to school in Philadelphia. Kobe Bryant played for the Lakers, even though Kobe's from Philadelphia, the Lakers had just beaten the Sixers and the NBA Finals in 2001 right before I got there. So there's like this tension between Philadelphia and not liking Kobe and even like there's a bit of jealousy when you go up against his school and those kids have to flash your jerseys or the nicer shoes, yada, yada, yada. But then as you grow up you start to really just respect people's, their hustle, their motivation, their grind. You know the fact that they wake up and just have a goal and they just constantly just want to achieve it and I'm just trying to figure out ways to stay motivated and get better.

Ant: 26:03

I think you sort of mentioned a couple of minutes ago about thinking about your family, the family you do have, the family you're going to have. Is that really where you find a lot of your purpose from?

Jamal: 26:14

Yeah, yeah, because I mean all these other things I don't care about anymore. I mean, you know, you don't really care about being cool or anything like that, right, I mean who you're showing out, for I find my purpose, for my family and to live life and, you know, continue to have more experiences. I definitely want to. You know, I just started traveling a lot more now, like I said, being from the UK, sometimes it's a blessing and a curse because all those international trips I'm spending all of my time just going back to London which don't let me sound a certain way to beautiful place, but for the 15 times I've been to London it could have been spread out across Spain, italy, you know, and so forth. So I'm starting to have those experiences now.

Jamal: 26:59

Why can't you London and somewhere else? So I recently went to Turkey. So, like you know, so those type of things are like kind of motivating for me or you know kind of what keep me going. But outside of that it's for the most part just family. I don't really even get overly concerned or pressured like, oh, is my family proud of me? I'm pretty sure my family's proud of me. They tell me that all the time. So it's not, they don't worry that. You know, they don't tell me so yeah, it's pretty much just, you know, just keeping it going.

Jamal: 27:29

I mean, like you, once you start to see something that's working for you and you can see the success, why would you change things up?

Ant: 27:41

Yeah, agreed. I think success part of it is having tenants on it's having skill, but a lot of it is down to consistency. Yeah, 100%.

Jamal: 27:50

So it's just this. You know it's almost like working out. It's why I enjoy fitness. It's just like you know. You understand that you're just trying to get that 1% better, 1% better, 1% better. And then you understand like okay, once you start to see those results, like why would you slow down? Like you're doing something that's working?

Adeel: 28:10

Yeah, well, obviously like and I talk all about like, peace and progression at calm talks and we have, like, listeners and viewers with different interests. I do want to ask a question for anyone who might be getting, who might be interested in real estate what advice would you give to a beginner who is trying to get into real estate?

Jamal: 28:31

I would say understand first your budget. From that, pick your desirable areas. And then, from that, when you pick your desirable areas, don't just pick a place on a map or something that your friend tells you or Instagram, real, that you think might be desirable. Go to the areas. When I was thinking about investing in Union City area, I would walk up and down Hudson County five mile walks right after just at night, just feeling it out, feeling the neighborhood, seeing the new construction, seeing where you know some areas that were lacking work but just had potential that you could just feel okay, two years, three years, once they fix this one street, once they clean this up here, boom, this place is going to be a gold mine For me. I would do those walks and then I realize the best place to invest was literally right next to the place I was currently renting an apartment from. So it was pretty funny for me. But you really got to be boots on the ground Now the money to figure yourself out. I mean you have your goals that you want to have. Every month I would have a certain savings goal every every check and as things got more paid off it became easier. I would also say in speaking about that.

Jamal: 29:46

Sometimes debt to income is more important than the cash you have on hand. So not everyone's story is the same, but I'll put it to you this way. Say, a person makes $200,000 a year but he's got two cars. Student loan debt is bad, but bad to a point where he's paying, say, 1500 bucks per month on the student loans. So it's not necessarily stretched out, it's more of a higher amount per month. He's got other things that could affect what his debt to income may be.

Jamal: 30:17

The person that makes, say, 150,000. But has less debt to income which pretty much I'm saying his average bills per month is way lower than the guy that's making 200,000, but has the higher W2 and higher money for the down payment, the person making less money can get approved for a bigger house a more expensive house, I should say, based on what his debt to income looks like. So I understand it's important to be saving and have that cash on hand, but you can buy a house as low as 3 percent but FHA loans 5 percent for a 5 percent congressional loan, etc. You just got a little bit of a PMI which obviously you'll honestly take care of in a couple of years because your home is going to most likely appreciate. But paying off the bills is almost just as important as saving for said house. That's probably my best advice I can give for a beginner.

Adeel: 31:08

That's solid advice. Yeah, because I mean, real estate is definitely something that I want to get into and I talk about this and that's a lot of the ways that my father, who didn't have any education back in Pakistan, he kind of made his money through flipping real estate and everything like that. So I always have my eyes on that. What does the outlook look like for real estate investing in this year and the next year?

Jamal: 31:30

This year is tough. It's a very wacky time right Because of the interest rates. I mean, sometimes we look at these rates, we call them blood money, just based on how high these numbers are 8, 9, 10 percent for these rates, and that's with good credit. It's tough to predict and it's hard for me to just tell people oh, go, buy right now, buy right now, buy right now, because the rates are ridiculous. I will say this, though If you're competing for a home right now, people get so gung-ho about the rates they don't factor the home price and the home value.

Jamal: 32:01

So, say, a $300,000 home that's available right now, instead of the line being wrapped around the block because you have an open house and everyone's looking to buy it. Now it's just yourself and somebody else that might be looking to buy that home. So now I can negotiate with that seller and say, hey, I'll offer you 280, I'll offer you 270, and you have a good chance of the seller coming down to the number you want, based off the lack of competition of buyers right now. Boom, compared to a year from now, let's just say Q4 2024, the interest rates dropped down to 4 percent, which would be splendid that same home that you wanted to buy for $300,000, maybe you put an offer down, but it's going to get bidded up Now. It's probably going to go for sale at $340,350.

Jamal: 32:43

So you're gung-ho about the interest rate and that's why you waited, but meanwhile there's a difference in $60,000, $70,000 in the final sale of that home. I can refinance and get that same interest rate a year later. Meanwhile, you've now paid $40,000, $50,000 more. Who loses? And I'll also add the fact that in the meantime, while you waited to Q4 next year, I invested and bought my house this year right now. So I'm no longer paying rent right now. I'm collecting appreciation right now and I have one year less on my mortgage compared to the person who buys it next year.

Ant: 33:23

I think one of the best quotes I have, I remember. I can't remember who it's from, but it's that time in the market is more important than time in the market.

Jamal: 33:32

Exactly. I just look at it like it's like with real estate it's always a green light. It's just about how you want to attack. It might be differently, like sometimes. I bring it back to sports. We talk about basketball At certain points, the way the defender's guarding you, I might have to drive to the lane and get a layup. If the defender's sagging off, maybe I pull up for a jump shot. I still have the intentions of scoring, but my strategy of how I do it is just based on how the defender's guarding me.

Ant: 34:04

You know you've spoken a lot about real estate, but you haven't really spoken about one of your other main hustles or your day to day. Talk us about the world of aviation and how you got it. Talk us about the world of aviation and how that funnels your life how that fuels your life.

Jamal: 34:19

Aviation is fun, man. I think more recently I've realized there's so much more to aviation than how I started, which was working in private jets or just some of the bigger name companies that you would know that manufacture aircrafts, commercial or private, etc. Now working more in aviation construction. It's pretty cool because you also I never really thought you would feel so much as far as the customer experience Working as a consultant and working in big entities to focus on safety and wayfinding and that customer experience of concessions as customers are traveling through an airport, so that's really cool.

Jamal: 35:04

And then obviously, working kind of more now in aviation construction. It gave me more of that confidence to do what I'm doing now. From the real estate standpoint of the new construction, I don't think I would have had that same confidence if I wasn't, you know, glued to looking at architectural drawings every single day, and then on such a large scale. You know you have the confidence and say wait a minute, if I can look at 38,000 square feet and see that progress. It's an 1800 square foot three bedroom is nothing right.

Ant: 35:34

Yeah, I agree. I think leveraging your one skill set for another skill set, like you're saying, looking at architectural drawings in your work and applying it to, say, building the house and the Poconos I think being able to leverage different skills and apply them in different areas is actually a skill set in itself, oh yeah.

Jamal: 35:50

And then when it's hand in hand, that's when you're at a sweet spot, because now it's an added motivation to not only succeed in your day to day job, but when you realize that that skill set is going to translate to you outside of the office, suddenly I'm having added motivation, right.

Ant: 36:07

What's next on the horizon for you? But we know you have the job. We know you're working aviation and consultancy. We know that you have the property game on the side. What's next for you? What's the real? What's the next exploration?

Jamal: 36:21

I think right now it's shifting a little bit right. So we're going to have two investment properties kind of up and running as of next year. After that it's kind of just like getting myself and my fiance where we want to be, as far as we have a wedding that we're planning. Getting it's 2024, probably more about getting settled. Building a new construction is one thing, but now we have to. I think we're going to kind of jump into the digital space. Now. We're talking about potentially starting a podcast or how to really share content for some of the investments that we've made. It's not just being reliant on these platforms to showcase our homes. Are we going to launch our own website? Are we going to things like that? Starting that space will probably be the next step for 2024, which is exciting because that's not really a high income type of investment. You're not having to get approved by banks just to kind of start a podcast, or really you got to pay to host the website, an IP page, all that stuff, but it's not. It's not as intense.

Jamal: 37:22

So I think that's going to be 2024. Obviously, you future plan, you have goals and you have conversations and you know I want to have a place in this country or that country, a vacation home here or there, there and travel the world. That's going to happen, but in good time, in good time.

Adeel: 37:39

So I'm hearing a collaboration coming very soon.

Jamal: 37:41

Huh, jabal, yeah, man, I kind of like the sound of it. You guys are setting the blueprint right now. I remember when Anne had this thing, you know talked about starting this thing and you're ready on episode 50 now.

Jamal: 37:50

So I like how you guys are moving even not using this platform that we're speaking on. So yeah, I got to just get to it. I had excuses before of my schedule kind of being more busy. Now it's a little bit more lax and I see no reason why I shouldn't Just at least get the ball running with the content space.

Adeel: 38:09

I think I'm going to speak for Anne both of us but you'd crush, dude. You'd crush with, like, your personality or your energy, and also the knowledge, the wisdom that you have to share. So we're going to help you out, man, like with the website and everything. We've done the hard bits of figuring a lot of shit out.

Jamal: 38:25

So yeah, yeah, I appreciate that, I appreciate that.

Adeel: 38:30

With the digital space. Are you thinking about like video podcast thing, or just audio Like? I'm curious about that.

Jamal: 38:34

I would like to do a couple. I mean I have not going to talk too much on my living environment, but I got a pretty nice spot that I think we know. We could set up a couple cameras and camera equipment and have some video content going. So I got a pretty nice view here in the background and I just kind of want to invite different guests and just share game. That's what it's about Just sharing games, sharing knowledge.

Jamal: 38:57

I know for myself you talked about the mentors or people that you would look up to. Usually those people are older when it comes to, like, a financial standpoint, which is great because you can see how they've made it, but I'm a little bit on the younger end, so I feel like I could be able to relate more to that person that's just starting out with college or in high school, that is trying to figure out. You know that's just not like their parents kind of nagging at them saying, hey, go do this, go do that. So that's kind of a space I want to dive in, as well as just really just talking with minorities about these opportunities, because, again, you don't really see too many of us. You know I've been in different spaces and different fields and it's lonely, so I don't and I'm not a guy that wants it to be lonely, so I definitely want to share wisdom to a lot of minorities.

Ant: 39:47

You know, talking about minorities maybe this is bias, because we're where we're from, in London, jamal, but everybody where we're from is a minority, and then minority basically because everybody is different. But how is it being a minority in the US and trying to make your way in aviation and being a consultant and also just trying to tackle your day to day, because I know you've actually struggled with some issues being a minority, I kind of want to just be able to see London, like you mentioned.

Jamal: 40:18

It's such a melting pot and you know it's kind of. I was very naive because I thought my representation of and I thought the way the world was and even Philadelphia is still a very diverse city when you compare it to the rest of you know America. So I was very unaware of how things really were when I went to college in the Midwest. I remember going to college and you know I went to college in Indiana. I would walk through the dorm rooms and pretty much a good majority of kids had like Confederate flags hung up in their dorm rooms. It was like the artwork. And you know East Coast guy, you know I'm from America, what else a Confederate flag and I thought it was just a cooler flag that looked good. Yeah, you start to realize, oh shit, like that's, that's a statement, you're saying something as you put this Confederate flag up. You know as as your your bedroom artwork.

Ant: 41:12

I don't know what that is. I'm going to be very honest. There may be some of the listeners and viewers don't know either. I'm going to be honest I don't know what it is.

Jamal: 41:19

So obviously America had a civil war. Viewers are going to have to give us a time date on when that civil war was, but there was a civil war in America between the north and the south. The south had that Confederate flag. So technically, when you're showing that Confederate flag, it's almost like an act of terrorism. Right? You're almost saying we still represent the old south and how old America used to be. The north one, the civil war and then from that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves after the civil war ended. So now, with all these racial tensions, things that go on, you're saying a lot about how you, your dynamic, of how you wish America to be. By showcasing that Confederate flag from the artwork or people that put Confederate flags on their license plates, things like that. It just shows a lot, right, but at that time I don't even know the full history behind it. You know what I mean. Like I just you know it's like a history class. Okay, yeah, one cool different flag, whatever, you're just from the south.

Adeel: 42:25

You know, obviously neither of us were born in America. All of us were born outside of it. Now I really got exposed to racism after I moved to America. In Pakistan everyone looks the same. Surprise, surprise. Everyone's like 99.9% are Muslim, 99.9% all have like a darker complexion and there's like different shades. There's definitely colorism out there, but obviously not a lot of races, not to the extent in some of the other countries. How, once you learned about what the Confederate flag represents, did you have any confrontations like? How'd you deal with that? I?

Jamal: 43:01

mean you have a bunch. I think my biggest confrontation is that I really had to really really deal with was just getting pulled over by the cops. I got pulled over by the cops. I mean it felt like once a week I was getting pulled over and I think what happens is that you start to kind of there's like a system out there. They start to recognize your vehicle, they start to view you in a certain way and you know, when you get pulled over by the police, you're kind of at their mercy, right, you say anything back, you do anything. Some needs resistance. That was something I really had to deal with and really impacted me greatly, because it's just, you know the numerous court appearances that you're forced to have to go to and you're talking about living on the college budget those court appearances like $300 a pop.

Jamal: 43:45

So you know, there's you know and the worst part about the court system which really impacted me is you know, college, you're moving all the time, especially when you don't really have money or just like art.

Jamal: 43:55

Every six months you might have a different address. But in those court systems you have to now go to the court's website to change your address. You can't just go to USPS and say, ok, change your address, and the courts are going to recognize that. So if you've been, say, summoned to court, you might not know that you've even been summoned to court because it's still mailing your old address. So now, if you've missed court, oh, now you have a warrant because you've missed a court date about something that was so stupid and you had no idea about. So it's like, I mean, once you get in that system, they start to nickel and nickel and dime. You just start picking at you, picking at you, picking at you, picking at you, until it just adds the fuck up and then it's just a really messed up system that until you have you know X amount of money to just me hire some real fancy lawyer and just say, all right, get out of here and dismiss everything in two seconds.

Jamal: 44:44

You're kind of at that mercy. So that was probably my biggest hardship while being in the Midwest. I mean, you can say one thing, I'll tell you this since I left the Midwest, I haven't been pulled over by a cop since. So you know, that'll tell you the story right there.

Ant: 45:06

I think you know in London right, I was kind of mentioned before but I mean I've not had any particular experience with something like that. But I feel like, because in London is more of an accepting from my experience anyway, especially where from Jamal, like everybody kind of just seems to find a way to get on what's your experience of working in the US and being a minority?

Jamal: 45:33

I think it's, for the most part, been good. I think my biggest hardships working has not necessarily come from race but from age. I think it's ageism has been. It was always a big thing that I struggled with early in my career where you know you're just you're young. You know, I had my first job. I started on the clock. I was 18 years old, so you know you got people with kids older than you and it's hard when you even have inside conversations when you're younger.

Jamal: 45:56

Your references at that time oh my mom said this, oh my dad used to tell me this, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you start saying stuff like that, they start to realize how you know young, that you really are in comparison to them would just like oh, my kids did this yesterday, my wife did this yesterday, so there's always that gap. And then with that, no matter, you know you might have all this knowledge from a book. They have all this knowledge from being in the field. So which one are they going to respect more? The individual that actually, you know, went through the experience that some author is probably writing, based on their experience, to teach you in your college setting, or you know, yourself.

Jamal: 46:33

So that was probably my biggest struggle. Now I kind of figured a good sweet spot again. Working in, you know, the New York area, it's a whole different world. You notice minorities everywhere. Your CEO might be minority, you know this. Women empowerment there's Even certain contracts. For example, there's always a certain percentage of the of a deal that has to be given to a minority or Based business. So you're always gonna kind of see representation and an effort towards representing, which I think is really important.

Ant: 47:04

So I feel like I'm at a really good spot here.

Jamal: 47:07

Um, as far as working in England, I can't speak for that right because I haven't worked full time over in the UK. I Don't know, I haven't been in those offices. I don't want you maybe, and you can speak to that more I don't want to speak on it and say something that someone would have issued with.

Ant: 47:23

Yeah, I mean to me. I mean, like I said, I don't and I fit normally the consensus, right, I'm still a White, so I fit the consensus and so I don't really have any experience. Or what I can say is that it's actually probably a good thing that you've not experienced any issues in the Tristit area for being minority.

Jamal: 47:44

There's always Kind of a difference to it. Sometimes it's not a fair bar. Um, I mean, I'm quite eloquent somewhat, I guess, and A lot of times people will ask me like where are you from? Because they have this thing where he doesn't necessarily sound fully American. Um, so I don't know if, because you know, it usually comes out that I'm from somewhere else or from England originally, I get viewed as a view that attack differently. I don't know, I don't know, but I think that sometimes it does play a little bit of a part.

Adeel: 48:17

Fouls be real you know, jamal, you. I have one last question for you. Actually, on my side at least, you have a tremendous amount of wisdom, knowledge, experience as well, and you're looking to kind of share that wisdom, knowledge. I know you have a vision as well, which is really fair for you. The last question I want to ask you is what do you see your legacy being? What would you like your legacy to be? I?

Jamal: 48:44

Would like my legacy to be the first Main staple of my family. That started that family tree where not everybody is okay. So you know what?

Jamal: 48:58

you know, say the, the kids all went to a certain school or they all, you know, never really had to worry about, saying, having to pay for college. Or, you know, getting that first house was easy. Why? Because we have a family pot where we all help each other out for that first down payment, like things like that. I want to kind of be the spirit of that. And you talked about the motivation, like what kind of drives you because I want that for the future. Like I've seen generational wealth From other families and I've seen kind of the difference and being able to start your life From an investment standpoint at 28, 29, because you've had to spend those first seven, eight years out of college paying off student loans or paying off school loans or paying off certain old bad debt, versus being able to start that life at 22. Right, it's just a tremendous difference and Certain certain people started different playing fields Started, sorry, different starting blocks, sorry. So I want all my Future generation to start from you know, the beginning starting blocks of life.

Adeel: 50:02

Brilliant love that, absolutely love that, jamal.

Ant: 50:04

Before you wrap up, um I kind of want to ask you where can people find you If they want to connect with you regarding property, regarding aviation or just generally, just to find out more about your story? I think my LinkedIn, my LinkedIn, is good, my LinkedIn is really good.

Jamal: 50:16

Like I said, I haven't started the podcast series yet, so I'm still kind of in the infancy stages of that. But when I do I'll start to kind of share the website and plug that. And I have a Instagram page. I've started for just this new business property yet, but I'm holding off a little bit until I get some more visuals. You know, I'm at that early stage of construction with the cement pouring, so I want to wait till I get the framing started and really start to show people what we're doing here. But right now my LinkedIn is good. You know, my first and last name is spelled and you can just spell the same way on LinkedIn. And yeah, whatever, just send a direct message and we can just kind of talk from there I said a quick call.

Ant: 50:56

Yeah, we'll be sure to link you out in podcast show notes and the YouTube video as well, for sure, my guy for sure.

Adeel: 51:04

Jamal has been an absolute pleasure to have you on. You're a G, you're a legend. We need more people like you in the world than in America, for sure, I appreciate it. We're gonna support you and, yeah, it's been a pleasure having you and having this conversation.